2006-11-17 [X name]: I didn't care for it one way or another. It was just a school-assigned read, for me..

2006-11-17 [Diiwica]: I didn't want to but read it because well I didn't really have much of a choice if I wanted to pass

2006-11-18 [Panda-monium]: Well I would love to here this arguement. How is it exactly that christians, as a whole, and as individuals, ruin peoples lives?

2006-11-18 [Diiwica]: Because they press their beleifs and always charge people of false things thatin the end usally end up scaring people emotionaly

2006-11-18 [Panda-monium]: *raises brow* They "always" charge people of false things? And not EVERY christian press their beliefs. It's absurd to hate an entire religion and a whole sect of people simply because some of them have not been nice to you. That's like saying a black person beats you up, so you go around advocating white supremicy and saying all black people ruin peoples lives. It's absolutely stereotypical and wrong, in fact, you are doing the same thing you are accusing christians of doing.

2006-11-18 [Diiwica]: I don't hate all

2006-11-18 [Panda-monium]: by being a member of this wiki, which generalizes all christians into a group and stereotypes their actions and beliefs, and then go so far as to hate their god because of the actions of MAN, then you are advocating it. What you permit, you promote.

2006-11-18 [Panda-monium]: by trying to start a campaign to stop christianity you are prejudicing against a certain group and even going to far as to promote the taking away of religious freedom, which is exactly what you are upset about!

2006-11-18 [Diiwica]: You Know NOTHIGN ABOUT ME,

TO my fellow members. I have finally got apic for you that I said I would get for you

2006-11-18 [Panda-monium]: I am not talking about you specifically, it's the fundamental flaw in this wiki I have a problem with. I just thought I should point all out, by being members of this wiki you are endorcing what you supposedly hate. But hey, who am I to know about such things as a gay christian, I've never been subjected to any kind of prejudice. *rolls eyes* You have fun with that now.

2006-11-18 [X name]: WHITE POWER

Of course, the logic is undeniable. You can't stereotype an entire religion and/or people. However, that doesn't mean that many of them aren't found wrong, or, 'Wanting.'
The purpose of this Wiki is to point out that error, and try to make a difference. If we simply said CERTAIN Christians aren't in the right, the message would be entirely too dilluted. By being so one-sided, it brings attention to the Wiki we wouldn't get otherwise.
Example: Straight ticket voting. How could anyone honestly endorse such a stupid idea, without being stupid? Of course 'one' party isn't always in the right on every issue. If that were true, there wouldn't be multiple parties.. But if you ride in the middle on every issue, very little will get done. Or, if this seems too cryptic..
Example;Haggling: You expect fifty dollars for a used car. Do you advertise that? Of course not. You'd advertise more than that, and when somebody shows interest, you begin to haggle. He offers twenty five, you go down to seventy five from one hundred, and eventually..

2006-11-18 [X name]: That you enter a Wiki(Unwelcome, in fact) and simply start telling the members what they believe is "wrong" doesn't say much in your favor. According to a good number of people in your own religion, your sexual orientation is 'wrong.'

2006-11-18 [Diiwica]: I do not have a problem with Christans. Just those that sit there and take the lovely stand of being so surpressive. As it is we all speake the supressers toung.

2006-11-18 [RomanceRevenge]: lmfao! your a Nun...how does it feel?

2006-11-18 [Diiwica]: Fake, LOL

2006-11-18 [de Morte]: To the comment abouve he is a fifty-styled greaser, with the POMADE NOT grease.

2006-11-18 [de Morte]: "God" is the biggest slaver there is. He takes away our basic instincts and tells us that we have to be something completely different than what we have evolved to be. I have no problems with anyone of any religion AS LONG as they don't preach to me.

2006-11-18 [dead~spirit]: GOD IS NOT REAL!.... It is really that simple.. so go ahead, pray to him, cry to him, beg to him...there's no one there.

and as far as attacking our wiki saying our beliefs are wrong because of the ideaology against Christians...isn't that a little contradicting?

2006-11-18 [Panda-monium]: We also have evolution in us, which drives us to rape and murder people, are you saying those are things that should be obeyed?

2006-11-18 [Xorital]: The idea of God is bullshit, if their was a god he wouldnt let all this shit in the world happen

2006-11-18 [Panda-monium]: What are you even talking about? How can you blame god for the actions of man when he gave us free will? Gah, that's not the point, my point is not to argue with you whether god does or does not exist, merely to point out your hypocrisy and ignorance, which are the two things you seem to despise about Christians.

2006-11-18 [de Morte]: It's not that we hate Christians. We all have our reasons for why we hate who we hate. You on the other hand, you think we solely base our hatred on Christians. As for the evolution comment, evolution doesn't make anyone force anyone, that is the nature v. nurture side of growing up.

2006-11-18 [X name]: Seeing as how I was not stating belief or disbelief in God(I'm also not going to touch free will. That's debatable in and of itself) I assume you were responding to Xorital, De Morte, and (Part) of Spirit's posts. Which isn't right: If you're giving a response to some of it, respond to all of it. That being said, my previous posts(which were limited to the topic you presented) stand.

2006-11-18 [X name]: I'd also like to say I read your house, and I enjoyed the last few paragraphs.However, I'd like to point out one of your quotes which fairly well sums up your message(Keep in mind, this is not the opinion of the Wiki, this is only my opinion):

"If you believe in equal rights for any of these(black and white, men and women, humans and animals), how can you deny equal rights to homosexuals?"


You speak of 'ostensible' and 'superficial' differences, but not all of the differences in those are only surface. There are exceptions, but take men and women for example: It's generally accepted men are physically stronger than women. It's also generally accepted animals, to varying degrees, lack the ability to think like human beings. These differences aren't simply 'superficial' ones, and there are reasons that we don't all have the exact same rights. As for sexual orientation being a surface difference.. You seem to take that for granted, but all I'm saying is that's exactly the problem:We're not yet sure if it IS only a surface difference. A lot(Though not all) of this orientation dilemma has been traced back to events in one's life that lead them there. Which brings us to De Morte's Nature Vs. Nurture:Which was it? As for being an animal or a human, male or female, black or white.. Those are (more) obviously nature, but whether you have the hots for your own sex?...

2006-11-18 [Xorital]: I also belive gays should have rights, I hope ot happens.

2006-11-18 [de Morte]: [Panda-monium], you keep pointing put gayness as an issue, but you don't take in the possibility that their are some people on here who are homosexual/bisexual. I am bisexual, but you don't see me using that as my point of fire. I accept who I am and don't have the need to use that as a weapon or an argument.

2006-11-18 [Xorital]: panda is lez you know...

2006-11-18 [de Morte]: I know.

2006-11-18 [Diiwica]: You know in the bible it says that it is wrong to love the same sex....

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: What do you mean, keep bringing it up? I brought it up once to show I know something about prejudice. And secondly, our instincts are that of survival, and to pass on our seed to the next generation, if you can't get that from normal means, you would then be driven, but your nature, to rape someone in order to do it. And I am well aware Diiwica of what the bible says on numerous issues, as I am a christian, especially one concerning me so personally, but thank you for your enlightenment. As to [X name] My sexuality is not the issue here, so stop acting like it is, and as far as ostensible or superficial differences go, it is proven that there is a gene that codes for sexuality, and that being heterosexual or homosexual is completely up to your DNA, though when or how you discover your sexuality be you straight or gay, is of course nurture. And it is also proven that a straight man and a gay man think differently as with that of straight and gay women. But the differences in brain function would be no greater than that between the functions of a man and a woman's brain. And yes it is true that ON AVERAGE men are stronger than women, and ON AVERAGE women have a higher pain tolerance than men, but that does not mean that these are differences which should result in different rights. Same as that with black people and white people, there are differences obviously, but being equal does not mean being the same. But AGAIN all of you, my sexuality is not the issue, the issue is your hypocrisy and the ONLY person defending that is deMorte, and even that is only touched on slightly.

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: Did you come in here just to bash people?

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: No, I didn't, I came here to find out your views on things and why you would create and join a wiki that ostensibly stands for the very things you say you 'hate'

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: DIfferent vies, different concepts, you see what you want to that is it

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: No, I don't 'see what I want to' if I only saw what I want to, I assure you this wiki would be transparent. It is not MY blindness which is the issue.

2006-11-19 [X name]: Blindness must be a big problem for you. That or stupidity.. I'll give you two reasons why this has to be the case:

You ask for us to stay on topic, on the "ISSUE." I addressed your concerns in the first post I made(The one your poor eyesight must have missed). Now I'm going to repost what I said, so you don't have to take the trouble to hit 'older comments':
(IF YOU HAVE READ ALL OF THE POSTS REGARDING PANDA'S ORIGINAL 'ISSUE', IGNORE THIS PARAGRAPH)

"Of course, the logic is undeniable. You can't stereotype an entire religion and/or people. However, that doesn't mean that many of them aren't found wrong, or, 'Wanting.'
The purpose of this Wiki is to point out that error, and try to make a difference. If we simply said CERTAIN Christians aren't in the right, the message would be entirely too dilluted. By being so one-sided, it brings attention to the Wiki we wouldn't get otherwise.
Example: Straight ticket voting. How could anyone honestly endorse such a stupid idea, without being stupid? Of course 'one' party isn't always in the right on every issue. If that were true, there wouldn't be multiple parties.. But if you ride in the middle on every issue, very little will get done. Or, if this seems too cryptic..
Example;Haggling: You expect fifty dollars for a used car. Do you advertise that? Of course not. You'd advertise more than that, and when somebody shows interest, you begin to haggle. He offers twenty five, you go down to seventy five from one hundred, and eventually.. "

I'm not asking for some sort of riposte, but I DO expect you to move on once the issue has been adressed and accepted, which must be the case..
The second example of your blindness is the fact you feel a need to tell me that your sexuality is not the issue at hand. I pointed that out when I first posted, acknowledging it was off topic by seperating it from the former, and telling you that it concerned none of the(Other) members of the Wiki.

Also, regarding the gene that decides a persons sexuality:I find that fascinating. Would you mind qouting a respectable source for me? I've heard rumors, but can't seem to find more than that. :)

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: I read your post, but you are the only one and since you are not a member of the wiki, I don't think it is your opinion I am interested in. But thank you kindly for your repost. And it was not you I was reminding of the issue, it was demorte who said I had mentioned it over and over when I mentioned it once and everyone else who were dwelling on it as if it were the issue.

2006-11-19 [X name]: Sorry about the last 'bit(Before editting it), for some reason it didn't copy and paste fully. Donno' why.('Sorry' because you had already posted before I finished. "The last 'bit" would be a documented source for the sexual orientation)

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: ... He's a member

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: If he was a member, he would be on the members list above, and he is not.

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: http://www.springerlink.com/content/k7w03624953x255l/

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/285/5429/803a

are two, though most complete papers on the subject are difficult to find online since they are considered new science and are not yet free online.

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: No all members are listed there. I was fr the longest time nly listed as Admin..... Members do not always have to be listed

2006-11-19 [snowwolfsa]: I've been watching this wiki since my friend created it... however ive never really posted in it till now... i just feel i need to state that.. it does not matter weather GOD is real or not... persnaly i myself beleave in god.. however i beleave in him in my own way... i do not feel you have to go to church to show you "love" him... or have to pray before bed or food, i guess you could say my beleave are relitivly close to the movie "Dogma".. that humankind has taken a good concept an by turning it into a beleaf screwed it all up... first point being.. the bible being the word of "God".. that i feel is dead wrong... the bible did not fall from the sky.. it did not just suddenly appear, it was written... written by who?... why ill tell you... it was written by man... otherwords the bible is EXTREAMLY flawed... generaly because mans point of few.. is well.. Idiotic... i meen chritianity..catholics...budisits... those fucking stupid crazy idiotic jehovas whitnesses(must say the worst of them all) i meen take a look at it... there are WAY to many of them, with that many diffrent religions... how can there not be disputes... argh.. anywho if im totaly off on what your talking about now.. forgive me i just decided to state somthing

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: Then they are not 'members' they merely frequent the wiki. If that be the case, I would be considered a member, since I comment on this wiki page, but I am not.

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: No you wouldn't. Firmly stated.. He is a member by different standards. Flat out

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: I agree with some of that you are saying starnightblade, and I honestly believe that the bible is metaphor, and if anything in the bible is historically accurate it was by accident. I as well, believe in god in my own way. The people at this wiki can believe in what ever they wish, I have friends who are wiccan, hindu, muslim, and so on, it is the hypocrisy of this page, and the generalizing that all christians need to be stopped and are terrible people and 'ruin peoples lives'. Last time I checked i didn't have enough influence on the lives of others to 'ruin them' nor have I ever tried, and I have especially never been prompted by my religion to do so.

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: The bible is changed to fit who ever wrote it. Example. the KJV.. is wrote by king james. it says what he wanted it to... The jewish bible says what jews wanted it to. and so n

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: *was written

True, men chose what was put in and taken out of the bible, and it was grossly mistranlated many times, so that it is not necessarily 100% accurate. That is fact, and it is my opinion and that of many people, that it is metaphor. It is only the extremist christians you take the biblical word literally.

2006-11-19 [X name]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

Biology and sexual orientation is the proposition that there may be, at least in part, a biological basis for sexual orientation. An increasing number of studies have investigated this link, but no scientific consensus exists as to the specific biological factors that may play a role, nor to the precise nature of their influence on sexual orientation. ..Most scientists agree that it is unlikely that there is a single "gay gene" that determines something as complex as sexual orientation.. ..Many also agree that social and environmental factors intersect with biology to produce sexual orientation, while many strongly believe that sexual orientation is purely biological and inborn. The view that post-natal environmental influence is the sole determinant of sexual orientation and gender is increasingly rare among researchers..

In short, it is NOT proven beyond a doubt that sexual orientation is based on genes. It's generally accepted to be a mixture of Nature vs. Nurture.. Unlike the color of your skin. And that is how I justify my indecisiveness regarding Gay rights, when I bear no prejudice against a man's skin. The issue isn't so black and white.(Forgive my pun)

2006-11-19 [snowwolfsa]: That is totaly understandle Panda..however their reasons for what they are saying may not tottaly wrong.. your yourself might not be a christian that acts the way they complain about... being you are not.. i dont agree with how you are treated by some... however if you take a look at history.. most of the problems that have started over religion... who started them "Christians"... the romans are a perfect example of that... while there are good christians, there are a hell of alot more christians of the type that give christians like you a bad name... in otherwords, in my opinion your are right and wrong about the ignorance of people on this site...

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: It is not proven that there is ONE gene, but it is proven that it is genetic and genes play a part, that makes it genetic. Nothing except very few things are purely genetic, not even skin colour.

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: Not true, in fact, I would easily guess that extremists of ANY religion are the minority of that religion and NOT the majority you profess. It is merely that the minority is more outspoken and therefore it appears as though they are the majority.

"These extremists Christians are just giving a bad name to the rest of evangelical"
"It is only a minority of power hungry zealots that are doing this "

2006-11-19 [X name]: Just because genes play a part, it's "Genetic"? Mm.. Therein lies the debate, I think, but that's fine. You're entitled to your own opinion, as well.

I've
As for skin color, you're splitting hairs, and you know it. There are black babies, there are white babies, etc.. How much sun you get isn't what I'm talking about.

I've stated perfectly legible and understandable reasons for the Wiki's purpose, as well as examples. If you choose to ignore it because I'm not a 'member' that's your ball.

2006-11-19 [snowwolfsa]: while what you say may be true.. that still dosent change the fact... that those "minoritys" are giveing the rest of the religion a bad name... it dosent take much to leave a first inpression on a person....i meen take you for example... you are under the impression that this wiki is ignorant, while that may be true, at the same time they are this way because of what they beleave... if i recall you stated you only wish to point out their ignorance, not change their beleaf... but you continue to argue here.. despite that... if it was me, i would of stated they ignorance an just left.. i would have persued it no furthur

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: But it is not just one gene that codes for the colour of your skin, there are different genes, thet code for melenin in your tissues, codes for how fast melinin is produced, how much, where it is produced and when. So since that is not all the same gene, by YOUR arguement it is not genetic. And I am not splitting hairs, there is homosexual babies and there is heterosexual babies and the things that happen to them in their child hood construct it. As well as their is milado babies there are bisexual babies. But we really are getting away from the issue, all I ask is that a member of this wiki, that being someone with their name on the wiki, in the members list, explain to me their reasoning for joining a wiki that embodies all the things they seem to dislike. If they can give me a satisfactory answer to that, I will leave you.

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: Yeah, I am just going to bud out of this one, before i get irate and pissed

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: The reason I haven't left is obvious in my previous statement, star, if you don't mind the short form, but, I will restate it since you asked. I am curious to know how someone can support the very thing they detest. And if they don't mean to, so that it is just ignorance, once they know they are ignorant, why don't they change it? This idea boggles me and I wish for it to be answered if that is at all possible.

2006-11-19 [snowwolfsa]: im sorry i seem to be joining this conversation in the middle, if its not to much trouble would you mind telling me how they are joining somthing they detest?

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: What boggles my mind is how you take the name behind something and then not look at the whole of it. Like this, my birth name was smething that flat out meant Black death.... But I am a but hearted caring person. THough my name has changed it doesnt mean anything different. A name is just that, A name something to identaify with. Only a thing to give idenity to A nother thing. It is just that simple. Sure the Idea may seeem that of forgine context, but it does not mean that it isn't old, and useful.

2006-11-19 [X name]: That is not my argument, though. I stated since it isn't completely genetic(Debatable, but likely), then it's not a straight forward issue, on the one hand. And on the other hand, my argument revolved around it being both nature and nurture, it had nothing to do with the NUMBER or multiplicity of genes..
But don't you see, that's a lie, whether you knew it or not. Babies are not 'born' looking for anything: As far as I, or anyone alive, can tell, they're born relatively Asexual. Granted, the seeds for that sexuality are there, but you can't compare this issue to skin color. More than just SEEDS of being black or white are in born babies, while I've never heard of some queer baby trying to fuck another.
Those two issues, are not compatable.

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: Star: By prejudizing and generalizing all christians, they are promoting the same attitudes and actions that supposedly detest. To be short about it.

Diiwica, it is not just the name of the wiki, it is also the banner in which you choose at the top of the page. On the page they talk about "puritans" and "wars", puritans are a SMALL minority of christians, and NOT all wars were about religion, WW2 for instance.

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: So I will simply wait until someone answers my question rather than skirting around it. That's all I want someone to answer that question. How can you support the very thing you detest?

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: Simple. BEcause we want to

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: *stares at you*

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: IT puts and end to the argument and gives you an answer... Being you think we are doing everything BUT answering your question

2006-11-19 [snowwolfsa]: lol ok... wow.. i actualy thought your where trying to find out somthing important.. when you realize that, that is how the world works, i think your will be able to move on.. the world will always hate, there nothing you can do about it.. this wiki is a group of people who hate chritians, just like im sure there are groups of christians who hate people like these... its just the way the world works, an if you say im wrong then thats all fine an dandy, you can see things how you wish to see them.. however the reality of things are diffrent

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: Case closed, new Topic

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: *decides to completely ignore Diiwica from now on* It is important to me Star, but I do agree with you, that is the way the world is, that is how it works, but the question is WHY? why does it work that way, why is there a group of people who hate christians and vice versa? Why is it that way?

2006-11-19 [X name]: Somebody wants me to go play WCIII, now, so I'll be back in a while.
I'd like to point out, though, that WW2 wasn't the best of examples concerning wars free of religion's influence..

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: I am not saying it was free of religious influence, I am saying it was not a war ABOUT religion. And it was not started over a conflict about God or Allah

2006-11-19 [snowwolfsa]: If you ever figure out that answer, please share it with me, that is a question i have been asking for years... anywho i must be off for tonight.. ill check back tommarow

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: no problem, and I thought if someone would answer my question, I might be a step closer to figuring it out. But no one seems able to.

2006-11-19 [Bleeding_Black]: But that is the thing. That question will never be answered. Human nature/moral/ethics are a matter of personal belief and that can be made of thousands upon thousands of influences, situations and thought. To ask why one does anything, holds certain opinions are so deeply rooted it would take A LOT of time to really get the real reason WHY to anything.

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: I don't disagree, but it's worth a try all the same isn't it? And just because there isn't always a clear cut answer to "why?", does that mean we shouldn't ask it? if we never ask why, simply because we may not get the answer that is all inclusive and complete, then we will never get half answers, and even half answers are better than no answers, aren't they?

2006-11-19 [Bleeding_Black]: People do things. People react to things. Its why humanism is a topic that still hasn't found any real answers but ideas to why people do anything.

Religion just happens to be what this wiki is about or more so in hoping of getting rid of it. To generalize is unfair but it happens. To get annoyed and wait for deliverance is most likely a waste of your time. They made this wiki with their beliefs and are not likely to change them because of what one thinks(for or against it).

2006-11-19 [Bleeding_Black]: The answer to WHY would be nice but half answers have always been fuel to dig deeper don't you think?

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: I don't care if they change their beliefs, that was never my intention as I before stated. My intention solely existed in finding out why they knowingly support that which they profess to hate. And I don't much feel like leaving till I get an answer. Even if it is in the slightest an attempt at an intelligent answer.

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: Perhaps it is fuel to dig deeper, but I think the desire and attempt to dig deeper is important. I don't know if the result is really what's important. Just thet one tries to understand all they can, and that they try to be all they can be. whether they achieve the goal is irrelevant really.

2006-11-19 [Bleeding_Black]: I never said that was your intent either. Though as much as this answer by Diiwica seems to be inarticulate, its true. They believe in what they hate because they want to. That may be the most uninsightful answer I've ever heard but that is it..for at least Diiwica. This wiki has many flaws, to generalize a complete group of people because certain Christains piss them off is ignorance. I hope one day they read some books and educate themselves. I hate a lot of Christains but to blame them for the problems of everyone is a little much.

2006-11-19 [Bleeding_Black]: I might add that I hate a lot of Christians, but not because they are infact Christians. Just to Clarify.

For example, Bush is Christian. I hate him. Though his faith is not why I hate him, hes just the dumbest ass out there and a monkey would do better.

2006-11-19 [Bleeding_Black]: No wait, hes a festering piece of shit that wishes to be an ass.

Sorry for the tangent.

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: o.o

2006-11-19 [Bleeding_Black]: I'm out for the night but I'll be back here later. Its an interesting conversation.

2006-11-19 [X name]: I'm back. I managed to lose every single game we played. Strange, huh?.. Usually I'm pretty good..
It's really interesting to watch you and your girlfriend discuss philosophy and one of the purported meanings of life, but, uhh..
I'm suprised 'Dot' hasn't said anything, yet. If you won't listen to me, maybe you'll listen to him.

2006-11-19 [dead~spirit]: Ok, you wanted a fight from someone who is in the wiki.. here you go. Since you blatantly ignored my statement from about 4 pages back I will say something new, if we weren't here to hate Christians back.. the whole world would be made up of Christians.. Also, I believe your sexuality does have to do with this, your calling us hypocritical, but you call your self a christian, yet the christian religion clearly states it's side against gays. Perhaps you should go and re-study your own religion before attacking this wiki..You were right about one thing however, only the people on the members list are members here. I been trying to get that through their thick skulls.. but as I stated previously....GOD IS NOT REAL.

2006-11-19 [dead~spirit]: Uh... hmm.. I think she left.. Damnit she always gets off before I get on.. Someone make sure she gets that damn messege!

2006-11-19 [dead~spirit]: As far as the WW2 comment.. that had a serious involvment with religion, evertytime people try to make the nazi's look bad, they talk about the persecution of the Jews.. When in fact the whole war started over the Jews if you knew the history behind WW2.. maybe you should study that as well..

2006-11-19 [de Morte]: She signed off at bad timing... ahh well I sent her a message, ranting.

2006-11-19 [Bleeding_Black]: Well, thing is I don't believe in god. Besides that not all Christians have something against Gays...its mostly Conservative Christians like those who are running the governments in Canada and the USA.

2006-11-19 [Xorital]: Dead spirit stated exacly what I was gonna say ironic.

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: Dead~spirit, I am not even going to bother to point out the flaw in your own learning, as I have studied both the bible and WW2 rather thoroughly, and yes I do believe that Hitler and nazism are terrible things, as I believe any idealism which purposely hates and prejudices against any kind of people is wrong. *points to your wiki* However, deMorte has so kindly finally given me a satisfactory answer and so I am obliged to leave your wiki, Adieu, and good day to you all. And Dead~spirit, may you fester in the cess pool of your ignorance, the rest of you, best of luck.

2006-11-19 [X name]: Ar, har, har, har. De Morte, would you care to divulge these secrets to us mere plebeians?

2006-11-19 [Bleeding_Black]: For the WWII comment...
Hitler had it hard growing up and it seemed for all his failures it was because of the people who had even the slightest involvement were infact Jewish. From here he had a growing hate for them, and by repetition he convinced others that they were apart of the problem(that being the depression that was going on before the start of WWII). People wanted anyone to stand up for them to get things back to the way they were and Hitler could rant for hours on end. They turned to him and such thats how a lot of Hitler's regime started. Hitler was able to make thousands believe Jews were the problem. HOWEVER one must remember that Hitlers part of the war was not the whole war, thus not being the main reason for it.

2006-11-19 [X name]: That still didn't make for a very good example. Personally, I would have used something like the Civil War, maybe.. Not great, but better than that.

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: The Beor War is another.

2006-11-19 [Bleeding_Black]: Aye, I agree with you. There are even more then that. History is a great thing, you can watch how people 'evolved' or as I see it repeat themselves.

2006-11-19 [X name]: The Crusades.. .... ...

2006-11-19 [X name]: Figured somebody would jump on that. Huh..
I'm not very familiar with the Boer Wars, so I wouldn't be able to dispute or affirm that.

2006-11-19 [princess_ of _darkness]: ...i like pie...oh so what r we talkign about wars...well im a fucking moron on stuff like that...

2006-11-19 [Xorital]: because a so-called christian is calling us ignorant.

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: I do not think you have taken the time to realize, Panda, that most of use do not hate god.. but hate christans. For the fact that they tend to do things that is not in agreement to what ther religion teaches. Sure the bible says to share the word of gd. but it does not say hate ne for not, it does not say FORCE otehrs to chance. There in is the problem... Not christanity, but christans who do not do as they should. Or what they are "tought". Now I do not know if many of you knw this... I wonce went to church, there in is the root of my STRONG dislike for christans. The bible does not say if you beleive something that is nt in order with the rest of them, you are bad... it does not say you will go to hell. But EVERY church I have gone to has been that way. If you don't fallow what they beleive you are, A sinner and teh root of hell.

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: Oh yeah, and Panda, Just so you know, I have the belife that all religons are wrong and rite in their own way. Also, if you take Pagan gods/goddesses they translate intothe christan saints... Just so you know

2006-11-19 [de Morte]: Letter number: 64972349
From: [de Morte] (Castle of Darkness & Destruction JOIN!)
To: [Panda-monium]
Sent mail 2006-11-19 05:59:42
Comment in 64977959

 
As I was reading through the comments on Gods Little Haters, I know you kept refering back to me as a member of the wiki.
But, I see you have signed off so I will ssay what I say to your question.
You ask why are in a group that goes against christians and their "god"
I DO NOT believe in this "god" I am A satanist, but that doesn't mean I worship the devil. (saying that just to clarify)
I joined that group because of my beliefs and because I do not and can not believe in the christian religion.
I had joined that group before as someone with no religion. I was not able to talk much then because of other things happening in my life, so I was deleted.
I re-joined later as a Satanist because I began to study that religion out of curiosity. I relised that the beliefs in that religion go along with mine.
I am not a hypocrite in this way because what I do and what I belive in coencide.
I was raised Christian, FORCED TO GO TO CHURCH! I still am forced to go.
I look at the members of that Christian church and see all their lies. I see how they go through their week and "sin" I see how they turn around on Sunday and pray that they would be forgiven. The only reason many of those people join the church is because they do something and cannot live with it so they join to ask "god" to be forgiven. They are weak. They can not make a life for themselfs, they have to be told what to do, how to act.
I joined that wiki because it gives me the ability to talk to those with similar beliefs, to talk to people who, too, have been abused by lies.
I joined because I can.
I joined because of everything above and much more.

2006-11-19 [Panda-monium]: I am well aware of the many different aspects of many different religions, please stop trying to teach me things I have learned from far more knowledgeable sources. I am going to stop watching this wiki now, so stop talking to me. I will not see it.

2006-11-19 [Xorital]: ok good

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: Can we talk about something different now?

2006-11-19 [Xorital]: yea.

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: Hmm, what to talk about?

2006-11-19 [Xorital]: umm music?

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: Music is great!

2006-11-19 [Xorital]: I love music

2006-11-19 [Diiwica]: Well, i found out that most of the bands I listen to are santanic.. example. D.M.

2006-11-19 [Angelic nightmares]: Theres a message for all members, on the Administrator's wiki. Please check it out when you get the time.

2006-11-19 [RomanceRevenge]: hmm...I love music also! ^.^

2006-11-19 [X name]: Okay, Grinch.
I hate music, and I don't believe in it.
Just curious, De Morte. Thanks.
By the way, I knew absolutely nothing about 'Satanism,' so I decided to look it up. If anybody was in the same boat as me, you might be interested in checking out Wikipedia's articles.

"Satan is just a symbol, nothing more," LaVey says. "Satan signifies our love of the worldly and our rejection of the pallid, ineffectual image of Christ on the cross."

I had always thought they worshipped Satan, which really didn't make much sense(to me).. Come to find out, members are just hedonistic and self centered.(!)

2006-11-19 [de Morte]: If you look it up and read what it's about, then you may see that satanism is embracing humaniity.
It's not about worshiping the devil or trying to be "evil"

2006-11-19 [X name]: (This is pretty much as on topic as we get, so I figured I'd post the rules of Satanism)

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth
1.Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2.Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3.When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4.If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5.Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6.Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7.Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8.Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9.Do not harm little children.
10.Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11.When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

2006-11-19 [X name]: Yes, I know. According to the article, they view devil worship as a warped form of Christianity. Any belief in a diety figure results in non-membership.
As for 'Embracing Humanity,' I think that's sort of complicated. The weak 'psychic vampires' they tell people to shun are human, too..

2006-11-20 [de Morte]: The Nine Satanic Statements:
1 Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence.
2 Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams.
3 Satan represents undefiled wisdom, instead of hyprocritical self-deceit.
4 Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates.
5 Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek.
6 Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires.
7 Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual developement," has become the most vicious animal of all.
8 Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.
9 Satan has been the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years.

2006-11-20 [de Morte]: #6 is what you are refering to.
It says nothing about shunning them.

2006-11-20 [X name]: shun  /ʃʌn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object), shunned, shun‧ning.

to keep away from (a place, person, object, etc.), from motives of dislike, caution, etc.; take pains to avoid.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Shun


By the rule, love, compassion, and sympathy are not to be wasted upon "ingrates"; these are to be given only to those who deserve them. LaVey felt that intelligent and strong people spent too much time caring for psychic vampires — weak individuals who always demanded attention and care, yet would never give any back. He taught that Satanists should strive to remove themselves as much as possible from such people in order to live in accordance to their instincts and individual wills.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism

My point was that Satanists certainly aren't embracing this type of humanity.

My(personal) conclusion is about what it always is when concerning religions: I agree Almost completely with most ideals and rules.
Reminds me of the Sith Code.. Kinda' neat.

2006-11-20 [dead~spirit]: Damn.. here goes another 2 hours of reading..

2006-11-20 [princess_ of _darkness]: holy shit im not reading that so yeah....

2006-11-20 [X name]: Builds character.

2006-11-20 [dead~spirit]: It's good for you.

2006-11-20 [X name]: Milk, reading, and physical labor.

2006-11-20 [princess_ of _darkness]: ouch my head hurts....

2006-11-20 [dead~spirit]: O.o;

2006-11-20 [Xorital]: that satanist thing is very interesting, christians should educate themselves with that info.

2006-11-20 [RomanceRevenge]: Tarkis...why Milk?

2006-11-20 [Diiwica]: ... you can find all of those on www.churchofsatan.com , in that I mean the rules

2006-11-20 [Xorital]: milk builds strong bones ^^

2006-11-20 [X name]: Remember; you asked..

The female ability to produce milk is one of the defining characteristics of mammals(Satanists love milk, because you're embracing your humanity, in a manner of speaking..). It provides the primary source of nutrition for newborns before they are able to digest more diverse foods. The early lactation milk is known as colostrum, and carries the mother's antibodies to the baby(Prevents illness). It can reduce the risk of many diseases in both the mother and baby.
The exact components of milk vary by species, but it contains significant amounts of saturated fat(Useful for insulation purposes), protein(Muscle building characteristics) and calcium(Thicker bone deposits for holding stress).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk (Revised by Me)

2006-11-20 [X name]: As for Christians educating themselves with 'that info', it wouldn't really do much. One of the key reasons everybody has there own opinions is because they don't listen to the opinions of others, and lack the ability to change their opinions once they have been formed. Which is why I value the skill of surrender, sometimes..

2006-11-21 [RomanceRevenge]: I wish I woulndt have asked...

2006-11-21 [X name]: That'll teach you.

2006-11-21 [X name]: I'd never really listened to the lyrics before, but now that I have, I think Judith by A Perfect Circle is the perfect song for this Wiki.

2006-11-21 [princess_ of _darkness]: finally some one found that site...

2006-11-21 [Diiwica]: ... the simple facts of life are the ones that make people the sickest in the stomach... LOL

2006-11-21 [princess_ of _darkness]: lol what???

2006-11-21 [Xorital]: princess is lost :P

2006-11-21 [X name]: I believe she's referring to my post on the inability of christians, probably humans in general, to accept other opinions once their minds have been set. Get with the program, here, Princess.

2006-11-21 [princess_ of _darkness]: oh thank you

2006-11-21 [Diiwica]: Yes Tarkis That was what I was talking about

2006-11-22 [de Morte]: ((Hi I won't be able to talk much I'm in Florida on vacation[Lives in Washington] so I'm not going to be able to get online or anything, I will be back on the 26th))

2006-11-22 [X name]: Check.
We'll be waiting.

2006-11-22 [Angelic nightmares]: Ya'll notice the changes on ET? With the emotions I mean?

2006-11-22 [de Morte]: yup!

2006-11-22 [Angelic nightmares]: Oh? Thats wonderful.

I miss my [-dot-]

2006-11-22 [Diiwica]: Those have been there for a while

2006-11-22 [Angelic nightmares]: Shows how much I know.... My excuse, I aint been on long enough to notice.

2006-11-22 [-dot-]: Only a week left before you get to come home baby, I love you Chelle..

2006-11-22 [X name]: That's just.. So damned sweet. Brings a tear to my eye. Really.

2006-11-22 [Xorital]: ok then....

2006-11-22 [Angelic nightmares]: ahahahaha, following song brings a tear to my eye http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT37HBlTGVU

2006-11-22 [Xorital]: I never really liked that song for whatever reason.

2006-11-22 [Angelic nightmares]: Really? I've always loved it.

2006-11-22 [Xorital]: I like old songs but for some reason that one I just dont like.

2006-11-22 [Angelic nightmares]: Yeah. Well thats ok. What kind of old songs do you like?

2006-11-22 [Xorital]: lets think here, I like bethoveen (nerd lol) I like that other song by temptations....''earth angel'' and the list can go on but I cant recall most.

2006-11-22 [Angelic nightmares]: If your a nerd for liking Bethoveen then, I guess that makes me a nerd too.

2006-11-22 [Xorital]: yay! nerds unite!

2006-11-22 [Angelic nightmares]: Yay!

2006-11-22 [Xorital]: hows life?

2006-11-22 [Angelic nightmares]: hell......my cousin Resse has been annoying me since I got here. He doesnt listen to a word I say, and I'm so bloody close to beating the hell outta him. Just glad I can go back home in a week.

2006-11-23 [X name]: The Temptations - I Wish it Would Rain
Mozart- Andante
Beethoven-Pastoral Symphony

Those are pretty good.
As for "Dying in your Arms Tonight", well, I never really cared for that song, either.

2006-11-23 [Xorital]: my brother drives me up the wall and I wish to murder him...but I cannot

2006-11-23 [Angelic nightmares]: Do any of you listen to Bad English?

2006-11-23 [Xorital]: iv never even heard of em.

2006-11-23 [Angelic nightmares]: Neither have I until now.

2006-11-23 [X name]: Ouch. Careful, Professor.

2006-11-23 [Angelic nightmares]: Professor?

2006-11-23 [-dot-]: I likes Bad English :)

2006-11-23 [Angelic nightmares]: Well, good find Possession

2006-11-23 [-dot-]: Will do love :)

2006-11-23 [X name]: "Do any of you listen to Bad English?"
"iv never even heard of em."
"Neither have I until now."

Two ways this could be taken:
1) You're actually referring to a band named Bad English.
2) You were remarking on Xorital's(Or my) grammar.
I decided to go with the latter. Professor(Of English) would be a comment regarding that, but now it seems you actually meant a band named "Bad English," because you don't know what I'm talking about.
I could just ignore your question, but I figured I'd explain myself, because I've got the time, and I find it amusing.

2006-11-23 [Angelic nightmares]: Yeah I meant the band sorry. I've been trying to find a video for "Possession" and I've got no luck

2006-11-23 [X name]: Possession as in Sarah Mclachlan, or Evans Blue?

2006-11-23 [-dot-]: Bad English is a band.. from the 80's..

2006-11-23 [Angelic nightmares]: Possession by Bad English hun. I've never heard of the version by Sarah Mclachlan and I've never heard of Evan's Blue. I might have, just not sure.

2006-11-23 [X name]: Yeah, I think I proved I didn't know that, Dot. Thanks, though.. (Why would you be sorry? My mistake, Angelic.)

2006-11-23 [Angelic nightmares]: I was sorry cause I should have been more, gah lost my train of thought. I should have been more pacific.

2006-11-23 [RomanceRevenge]: Bad English....what kind of music are they?

2006-11-23 [-dot-]: 80's Rock .. awesome band. :)

2006-11-23 [RomanceRevenge]: sweet.

2006-11-23 [dead~spirit]: Hmm.. nice

2006-11-23 [RomanceRevenge]: Merry Thanksgiving!

2006-11-23 [Xorital]: yea merry thanksgiving and a happy new turky stuffing.

2006-11-24 [de Morte]: Lol *is stuffed*

2006-11-24 [RomanceRevenge]: haha

2006-11-24 [dead~spirit]: I have a question for everyone, what is the legal age that you can move out in MI without being considered a runaway.. is it 17, or 18?

2006-11-24 [X name]: Twenty one..
I'd say eighteen, but you should be able to get emancipated a 'bit sooner.
Of course, that's just a guess.

2006-11-24 [-dot-]: 21? I hope not 21, cuz Michelle would left home at 20 :) I know in NC its 16.

2006-11-24 [X name]: Hmph. I didn't know you needed your parents to consent to an emancipation. That's ridiculous.
(I'm pretty sure Dot realized this, but in case other people didn't, I was kidding when I said twenty one.)

2006-11-24 [Xorital]: i want to runaway from home sometimes but I got nowear to go

2006-11-25 [de Morte]: I want to get emancipated (sp?) but I have free (if annoying) house and food...
So I'm stuck...

2006-11-25 [-dot-]: I did :)

2006-11-25 [Xorital]: im tired.

2006-11-25 [Angelic nightmares]: In Michigan, if I remember correctly, its 18. And you can get away with it. Cause accoring to the law, at 18 your an legal adult. And can basiclly do as you please, except drink

2006-11-25 [X name]: And own a Concealed Weapons Permit.

2006-11-25 [Angelic nightmares]: That too. ^_^